Building a V6 clutcch car!

[231na300hp]

Ok guys I'm new on here, I'm building up a 231 to put in my G-body, I've read some of the posts on here about the V8 bellhousing fitting the 6. Well I've been looking all over the net and can't find a flywheel for the even-fire 6.

Silver Seal products lists a flywheel for $10.00 but I haven't found if it was for an auto or stick. The add says "flywheel" but it doesn't list a/t or m/t.

http://www.silver-seal.com/product/F...Even-Fire.html

Will a 350 flywheel fit the 6 or is it a bigger wheel with more teeth?

Also, I was reading on a post for adding the overdrive to a Saginaw 4 speed, I have the big ratio Saginaw 3 speed, what does it take to convert the 3 speed to a 4 speed, I am aware from other BOP and GM sites that it is the same case, did they use thinner gears to make them all fit?
If so, would the 3 speed gears be stronger due to more metal?

Any more help on this would be helpfull.

[gsjohnny]

pretty cool. g-body bellhousings come around ebay once in a while. may have to check pontiac and olds. go to ebay, type buick bellhousing. there is a quartermaster nascar bellhousing. continue to search some of the nascar seller and you should be able to find a flywheel and clutch. i remember seeing them or ask the seller if they know of any.

[231na300hp]

thanks gs been searchin a long time, finally got a six, used to dream of the black turbo regal that used to cruise aroun my jr. highschool around lunch that car ewas one of the badest around here, my g body however will be naturally aspirated and running the 350 shallow dish pistons, I have a 350c behind it now but when i put it back in it will be a clutch, somethin about rowin the gears in a g body just seems right - im hopin it'll get some attention here down south since not too many people run buicks with manuals behind em. Most of the guys here are runnin chevys and mopars a few fords slim pontiacs and olds - very few buicks, thanks for the help

[231na300hp]

Finally I have found a new flywheel for the 231 v6 even fire the price is a little out there (476.22 + shipping) but its worth every penny to put a stick in this g-car. Heres the good stuff there are only few who would want this.

-it is steel (29.0 lbs)
-160 teeth
-counter balanced
-ring gear is 13.420"
-bolt spacing is 11-5/8"
-bolt size is 3/8"x16
-uses a 10" - 10.4" GM clutch

[opeltwinturbo]

This is a little late in the thread but I have several 231 4 speed setups. Complete transmissions, bell housings, and motors from a 77 Skyhawk setup. This includes pedals, linkage, and possibly the complete car.

[231na300hp]

Its never too late to puick up parts for this project, sir. in fact I willl be resuming this project after the first of the year but i deffinitely would like info as to the purchase of your wares that you have. I am not in need of the skyhawk body but the transmissions ,bellhousings, and pedal assemblies sound nice, could possibly still be looking for a flywheel. I will send you a message to work out the details.

I am also looking for a 4.1L 4bbl intake if anybody has one? this is an excuse to pull the top offf of my aged 231 to see the current state of the inside the valley and to help get a 390 holley for my christmas present

[kiwisold]

I'm wanting to use a flywheel on my 1978 even fire 3.8. I have the skyhawk bellhousing with the cable style fork setup. I'm wondering if I have the proper flywheel for this motor. It's part no is 1257035-3. It looks like it has weight taken out of one area. i know they started to internaly balance these motors in mid 1977. I am wondering if have the early skyhawk flywheel. There was no wieghts on the flexplate that I took off the motor. Also this is a 160 tooth flywheel. would appreciate any info or places to get more info on this. Thanks

[jerry mathers]

If you have a tinny harmonic balancer up front then its internally balanced. TA performance catalog lists flywheeles and good info on fit or application.

[231na300hp]

I've used both the solid balancer and the one with the inertia ring on it (mind you this engine is an a/t at the time so it has a flexplate and an original balancer that was externally balanced) the solid balancer was from an Internally balanced engine; it ran fine other than the initial 5 minutes of rod shift (one balancer will shove the rods towards the front of the engine the other to the back, at the time I had done that the engine already had over 100k on it, im still driving it at over 275k with a third different balancer, it all depends on the vibration you can handle, I don't have any rod clatter or bottom end noises)more or less it depends on where the slug is pressed into the "damper" in relation to flexplate weights on an externally balanced engine, now 160 is the magic number of teeth, rebalancing the entire unit is recommened when using miss matched parts, if you have a press and all the other parts for the parts engine you can set the slug up to or within 15% of the original balance without any adverse side effects. If the FLEXPLATE HAD NO WEIGHTS ITS INtERNALLY BALANCED or could have possibly lost them, I still have my solid hub for use when I gather all my parts, it has no slug in it so it was from an internally balanced engine with a flexplate. Some hubs have been factory ground to balance just the balancer prior to balancing the entire rotating assembly as well, as for flywheels look for dimples that look like they were drilled in, some flywheels that have had sever clutch fatigue and or failure have been know to gouge out wierd patterns and or valley and ripples also. Inertia ring dampers are better for the low rpm turning engines, good till around 5500rpm when they may start to slip (depending on age of course), solid hub style balancers will work to about 7550rpm (if balanced assembly is within 10% or better can probably see more, but factory or miss matched balance and anything above that will shatter it), Oh and kiwi some other people have successfuly used other types of flywheels back in the day, those are long gone as far as buying them outright, but and I say but some times you can get a few of the old aftermarket supply pieces if you look hard enough.

P.S.

If you plan on build high rpm stick = solid hub balancer + your crank + your rods + your flywheel + balanced to within 15%

Anything on the low end substitute the inertia ring balancer and change balance to within 30% (to counter act spark knock)

and as jerry has pointed out there are other balancer dimensions in diameter, I have only came across later model v6 balancers in one dimension here in Louisiana where they may be about 6 left on the road.

[kiwisold]

Yea, I'm not building a super high rev motor. 1978 3.8 maybe eldebrock performer cam kit headers and intake. Using t50 five speed. Doing triumph tr7 conversion something dependable,fun. Just trying to see if the flywheel I have will work. It is 160 tooth. I got it at a junk yard with the skyhawk cable style bell housing and have no info of what year flywheel came off. It looks like it has weight taken off of it in one area not added. Hard to find any part no. to year info on these. Not alot of this stuff around anymore like you say. Gonna start tboing to find balance for the little 3.8 I guess. Cheers.

[jerry mathers]

Well you just changed the ballgame by finally mentioning what trans mission ur using. Hopefully its a supper t 50, differance being tapered timkin bearing on the supper or flat roller on the regular. differance in cyncro as well. ATR only in supper. im not sure on bellhousing for v-6 but im pretty sure the supper or t-50
trans will need a differant bell than the 78.

[231na300hp]

yeah t50 is completely different pattern all together, you may try a bell from on of the jeep sites be sure to mock the engine in the car and get a bell diagram from the company you intend to buy from and take plenty of measurements for clearence in the car youre puttin it in, If you can't use your bell housing from the hawk I will buy it from you I know for sure it will fit my project and it is always good to have spares as I have a lead foot blown clutches can wreak havoc on a bell

[deadmanscurve]

might have an extra 4.1 intake . might want to check and see if secondary ports can be bored out - they neck down in size alot . i was just wondering the last couple days if doing that , then a "doc plenum mod" , and some basic port matching would yield a useable intake . q-jet too big probably but what about a holley 650 spreadbore ? if the motor is breathin good ( intake , cam , porting , headers ) might handle it , especially with the smaller primaries . just thinkin' .

[gsjohnny]

might have an extra 4.1 intake . might want to check and see if secondary ports can be bored out - they neck down in size alot . i was just wondering the last couple days if doing that , then a "doc plenum mod" , and some basic port matching would yield a useable intake . q-jet too big probably but what about a holley 650 spreadbore ? if the motor is breathin good ( intake , cam , porting , headers ) might handle it , especially with the smaller primaries . just thinkin' .

we have a 4.1 .060 over, alum intake, cam, headers and uses the 650 holley s/bore. no problems at all. we had it in the skyhawk chassis car. it went 14.0's. mopar rear has wild high 4's in it. would spin the 30 x 10.5's with no problems. ask john has fast it was turning at the end, said over 6500rpm. yikes!! for an unbalanced engine. now it sits homeless.

[Tking66]

Ok, I've been working on this very task for the past several months. I'm building a 24 Hours of Lemons car out of a 1979 Skyhawk and I couldn't bear the idea of driving that amount of time with a boring automatic. So please consider that this info is all based on doing things on the cheap cheap cheapity cheap. The combination of parts I've found is this:

-1982 Camaro Bellhousing. They made these with both the BOP and Chevy bolt patterns for some reason. I got one off Ebay for $75 and it has the typical Chevy Muncie/Saginaw bolt pattern to the transmission.

-1990's Camaro 153 Tooth Flywheel. Identical center registration hole and identical bolt circle. There is one bolt hole that is 1/2 a bolt diameter offset for keying of the flywheel. This can easily be modified with a mill like I did, or even with a round file with a little time. Or you could weld the hole shut and redrill it if you really want it perfect. Now, I've read many different opinions on whether or not the even fire flywheel needs to be balanced. I'm going to roll the dice since a Lemons car is meant to be done super cheap and if it shakes a bit, well that's my mistake. If it shakes to pieces, well, that's an even bigger mistake.. You may want a machine shop to match balance the flywheel to the old flexplate.

-Starter. You need a typical small block chevy mini starter. This is the only real non-bolt-on part. You will need to make an adapter for the starter as the Chevy flywheel is 153 teeth and the Buick is 160. The stock starter hits the block if you try to move it in towards the smaller flywheel so you need the mini-starter. I milled a simple adapter that bolts to the block, then the starter bolts onto that.

I got a Borg-Warner World Class T5 out of a 2.8L V6 Camaro and it bolts right up to the bellhousing. It's an odd duck because it has a 14 spline input shaft, so I had to order an aftermarket 14 spline, 10.5" diameter clutch disk from Speedway for $70. All the stock ones with that spline were 9.5". If you get a 26 spline or 10 spline transmission, there will be numerous 10.5" discs you can use.

Then use a pull-type slave cylinder to yank on the clutch fork and tie up the other loose ends and you will be in business.

Hope this helps.