1971 Rebuilt 455 Stage 1 Engine Complete

[goldgs]

Hello, I hope that I am not violating forum policy here. I want to sell the 1971 Rebuilt 455 Stage 1 Engine and matching OW transmission that I have but I have no idea of value. Before I actually list it for sale on the For Sale forum, I was wondering if I could get some ideas from the members regarding the value. I do realize that in the end it depends on what a buyer is willing to pay but I am looking to find a win/win price to start.

The engine is fully rebuilt and painted. The engine has not been fired. The block has an F-23 date and was decked when it was rebuilt so the TS is no longer visible for documentation. The previous owner states that this engine came out of a wrecked 1971 Stratomist Blue GSX Stage 1 that went to the crusher. The Stage 1 Registry states that since this engine has the original OW transmission and the serial numbers match that the engine would definately be Stage 1. So the only way to definately state that this is a Stage 1 engine is to keep the trans with the engine. Thanks for your opinions.

[stagedcoach71]

Was/is this listed on Ebay?

In the absence of the car it originated from, what tells buyers that it is a Stage 1 engine and trans? The TS stamping has been removed.

The car which the trans VIN agrees with is gone.

What features conclude the trans is not an Olds W-30 unit?

What features tell the buyer the engine is not a base GS455 engine or some other contemporary Buick sourced engine?

Do you have the entire engine including original distributor and carb? They are big ticket items

I am in the market for a 71 TS engine for my GS and have a genuine interest finding a replacement engine.

Your thoughts are appreciated.

[goldgs]

Hi David,

Thanks for the reply. You have good questions. You are obviously interested.

The 1972 restored body and chassis, the 1971 Stage 1 engine and the 1971 OW transmission were all listed on eBay. I set a high reserve price for each in hopes of determining a price range from the bids. I believe that I mentioned in each auction description that the engine and matching transmission were a matched set because my intent is to find a buyer for both and that is what I have decided to do. However I would still like to feel comfortable about the value before I decide to sell or keep the combo.

The original 1971 GS Stage 1 car is gone to the crusher. The only way to verify that the engine is Stage 1 is to keep the engine and transmission together. The trans has the original tag 71-OW and you can tell that this is not from a Olds W-30 because the trans has the 1971 Buick Vin# stamped on the case in the appropriate location.

As mentioned, the engine has been decked and the TS is gone. We know that you can not verify that a 1971 GS 455 was Stage 1 by the Vin#. However, it is verified that the transmission is from a Stage 1 car. Because the Vin# on the engine matches the Vin# on the trans. then the engine had to be from the same car which would have been Stage 1. This is enough proof for the Stage 1 Registry which agrees that this is a 1971 Stage 1 combo.

In addition to the above, the previous owner and engine builder, both very well known and reputable Buick owners and restorers, have verified that the car was wrecked and the body went to the crusher (sad story) and that this engine and trans came from this 1971 Stratomist Blue 455 Stage 1 Buick GS.

I do have a Stage 1 carburetor for the THM400 dated 1509 MD. I am not an expert in the dates but I will check it out. I am not sure of the distributor but I will find out. It is stamped 1112104 1E21. I am assuming that the 1E21 is May, 21, 1971. The engine is dated F-23 (June 23). These two big ticket items were not included in the auction for the engine.

I hope that this helps. If I do not sell this combo soon, it will just stay in the 1972 GS or I will find an appropriate car to put it in. I suppose these combos do not come along very often. If you are interested make me an offer I can't refuse or if you have additional questions, please feel free to PM me or call 408-315-0785.

I hope that this helps you David,
George

Was/is this listed on Ebay?

In the absence of the car it originated from, what tells buyers that it is a Stage 1 engine and trans? The TS stamping has been removed.

The car which the trans VIN agrees with is gone.

What features conclude the trans is not an Olds W-30 unit?

What features tell the buyer the engine is not a base GS455 engine or some other contemporary Buick sourced engine?

Do you have the entire engine including original distributor and carb? They are big ticket items

I am in the market for a 71 TS engine for my GS and have a genuine interest finding a replacement engine.

Your thoughts are appreciated.

[stagedcoach71]

Thanks for your reply George.

If you decide to sell the carb or distributor apart from the engine, please advise.

Good luck with your sale!

[goldgs]

Dave, probably should keep the carb and dist with the engine. Thanks

[71stage1conv]

I'd recommend selling the carb separately, since the date is not in the ballpark. From what you posted, it was made on the 150 day of 1969.

Also, I wouldn't be afraid to sell all the item separately, as you will probably get more money than a pkg deal. Most importantly, I'd let everyone know WHO built the engine.

Since the engine is F23, the car was likely built in July of 71 (very late in the model year), or possibly July of 70 (for very early model year). Because of this, I'd post the vin.

[71stage1conv]

"The Stage 1 Registry states that since this engine has the original OW transmission and the serial numbers match that the engine would definately be Stage 1."

Likely yes, but not definite. I know of at least one documented case where a 71 BB was installed in a stadard 455 GS car.

[69GS400s]

I've heard that there are methods of aquiring the stamped codes even if the block has been decked - has something to do with the stampings' imprint still obtainable from the compression of the strike even if not visible.

I believe the technology is derived from getting serial nimbers off of guns where the serial numbers have been filed off.

....its worth some research

[goldgs]

ENGINE BUILDERS
I am not sure that they would want me to post that info on the forum. So I will just let them chime in if interested. The engine was rebuilt by a reputable machine shop. The invoice for the build designates it as a Stage 1 engine. I contacted the shop and asked the owner if it was Stage 1 or just built to Stage 1 specs and he said that it was Stage 1 when it came into his shop. He said that they did deck the block and no one kept a record because the vin was on the block. Seems they were not aware of the importance of the TS on the Buicks.

DOCUMENTATION (look at the evidence)
In addition to the Stage 1 Registry's knowledgeable opinion, the machine shop indicates that it was a Stage 1 engine, had the Stage 1 heads etc when it arrived at the shop and was rebuilt as a Stage 1 engine. The owner of the vehicle knew the history of the car, got the engine and trans out of the 71 GSX Stage 1 that was wrecked. Before the engine and trans was installed into the 1972 GS, the owner had a Buick engine expert tear it down and make sure that it was built properly. The expert who also knew of the engine's history gave his approval. I think that if this was a court of law with a judge and jury, this drive train would be convicted of being original Stage 1 equipment. If I was on the jury I would convict it. I bought it because the evidence is overwhelming.

THE CARBURETOR
The engine did not come with the carb so I purchased it seperately feeling that it would be better to have an incorrectly dated Stage 1 carb than no Stage 1 carb at all.

VIN NUMBER
When I get a refundable deposit on the engine I will give the vin to that person so he/she can do the research before paying the balance. That CSI type technology for recovering the serial number from the deck sounds pretty cool. Please let me know if anyone finds out about this.

PRICES
My original thought was that this engine and trans would be put to its "highest and best use" in a car other than my 1972 GS (as nice as it is) and that there was someone out there that really needed this equipment to complete a Stage 1 project. I gave it a try and offered it to (3) Buick Groups but no one has stepped up. It was likely priced a bit too high but it deserves to be at the high end of the range in my opinion. So I have decided for now to just leave it in the 72 GS 455 restored body, chassis and interior. It looks real good in there. I will drive it to the shows and win the locals and be a contender for the regional shows and that will be fun.

Thanks, I do appreciate all the comments.

[stagedcoach71]

I saw your GS posted on Buicks.net.

It looks like a really nice car.

I hope you enjoy it.